remember to take care of your own soul.

We are called as Men to lead our families and to LOVE our wives as Christ LOVES the Church! NEVER EVER PUT MINISTRY BEFORE YOUR FAMILY! I learned this the hard way! If you are a Woman do not settle for nothing less than a man that LOVES you like Jesus LOVES you! I will end with a quote that rocks me when I read it! "Your worst days are never so bad that you are beyond the reach of God’s grace. And your best days are never so good that you are beyond the need of God’s grace". Thats what I would tell not only young men and women but older as well! Love you all!

Let everything you do be built to attract God FIRST. People second. Whether it's your life, your ministry, or your marriage. Let them all entice God before people.

Serve!

Don't take too much credit for the "lows" or you will take too much credit for the "highs".

Interview them as much as they interview you. Yes it is God's church and yes you are excited for an opportunity to serve but where and who serve effects your family as much as it does you. If you have young kids, what does the children ministry look like? What expectations do they have for your spouse?

Eagerness without prior preparation is the number one reason there is such a high turnover rate. For the sake of yourself, your family and the next church take your time in the process.

not to be to cliche - but in the words of jimmy v -

"don't give up, don't ever give up."

Go to seminary and learn something before you go to a church and fill it with nonsense.

I've been in the trenches four years w/o a degree. i have a friend who is graduating from four years of bible school this month with a degree in youth ministry.

i'd put my experience versus his academics any day.

dont disagree with the validity of some seminaries...
dont disagree if God calls some people to it...

i disagree w/ absolute hard line stances like the one your comment alludes to...

My initial comment was simply responding to your plea for advice, so I offered some.

Read it again: I've instituted no hardline rule - it's just my advice.

Based on your leadership team, it appears that NS has a rule against going - or maybe that's just the advice you give - I do realize there's a difference.

"NS has a rule".... id beg you to not make assumptions --- you know how that can be perceived...

No assumptions made. Just a conclusion drawn from evidence.

If you re-read what I wrote it's clear I offered the qualifier: "it appears ... the advice you give"... I know it's not an assumption, because it's based on evidence:

1) No one on your leadership team has a Seminary degree.

2) You all regularly and publicly refer to it as cemetery.

Summary: NS leadership explicitly states that it's a bad thing (cemeteries don't conjure up a positive image), and implicitly reinforces the idea, since you don't hire people who have completed degrees.

Question: How do you think this is perceived by young people who look up to you all? Let me take a stab: "Don't go."

If your words and your example don't equal advice, I'm not sure what would.

@Tommy...It's good to see you taking an interest in the well-being of the local church. I will give you the benefit of the doubt in assuming that's what you are doing...I KNOW you wouldn't have anything against another body of believers, because out of 10,000 folks the laws of statistics would say that there are at least a few of them scattered in the masses...(insert sarcasm into that whole paragraph).

Your boy PN, I'm sure you know him personally since you speak so much about him as if you do, gave me advise on this very subject over a meal one time (that's what grown-ups do when they want to talk). He said that he went to seminary and...wait for it...completed the majority of it. And since the "diploma" isn't what it's all about...I'm sure that would suffice for you. He gave me some very good advise...he said that it's a calling. He told me that I should give it serious prayer before making a decision whether or not to go. I'm sure you already know...but he's VERY knowledgeable about everything that you traditionally learn in seminary.

As I said in my original post some 30 comments ago, I said be prepared. I think that would probably be a more appropriate then suggesting/demanding that someone go to seminary before you bring nonsense into the church...

The church is not a American thing is it??? What advise would you give our brothers who are asking the same thing in lets say...Afghanistan, Iran, Egypt, etc. I doubt that escaping to a seminary is really an option for them...I'd be willing to say that there isn't one in the entire country. They are the church right??? They are believers right???

Booyah--- im out...

Acts 4:13 - read it.

that's what all the disciples did...

BCoop & Dhall: I take it that you disagree.

2 points:
1) By the time of Acts 4 they had discipled under Jesus for more than 3 years and were constantly ministering with him - so this is a pretty good seminary education, don't you think?

2) They were disciples of the Messiah.

So, the only way this is parallel is if one is mentored for that long, and following a Messiah. Unless of course you want to label Perry a Messiah and be mentored by him for 3+ years, I'm confident my earlier advice still stands.

@ Tommy F- I believe you need to make a distinction between apostles and disciples here if you are going to split hairs and cause dissension.

Also, are you supposing that seminary professors are plural messiahs? (Small 'm' obviously)

Tommy writes all of the time on other outlets about not preaching from the word, but I cannot find anywhere where getting a degree certifies and qualifies one to stand in a pulpit. Are you claiming that this should be an addendum to the Gospel? Yes we are to equip ourselves, but can a relationship with the father not simply be enough?

i understand the whole deal about them being discipled Jesus personally. but as i read the gospels - i get the feeling they didn't exactly get it most of the time. and Jesus wasn't teaching them hermeneutics or church history or how to build a youth program or how to witness or how to deliver an alter call.

and why can't i be a disciple of the same Messiah? sure - i don't get to walk physically with him. but i have had a relationship with him for 5 years. i am growing as Christ's disciple.

does that seem valid? and i realize that you have said that seminary isn't a hardline thing - but does what i said make sense to you?

You will often get kicked in the balls by people you are pouring your very lifeblood into. Your credibility, integrity, authenticity and motives will be repeatedly challenged. So be sure everything you are doing, and everywhere you are leading, is absolutely of God. Because if you doing everything from God's will, then you will know that the attacks are against Him, and not you. Numbers 16:11.

Great question.

You cannot lead where you haven't been yourself. You can't impart what you don't first have. You've got to BE what you hope for them to become. So the #1 thing...? Have a vibrant relationship with Jesus. you can't fake that. He will sustain you when you want to quit...and comfort you when you're misunderstood or unsupported. Jesus got away, so should you. It's too important NOT to...and if you think you're too busy, your pride has your priorities wacked. How you gonna try to do something "for Him" without the Holy Spirit's inspiration and power? It's not about you. I've heard someone say (not to be legalistic about time...it's about quality...but it's a great principle to adapt to your life)...an hour a day, a day and week, a weekend a month, and a week a year...get away to be with God...to be refreshed and listen.

I'd first tell them what my mentor told me when I told him God called me to ministry...

Be clear about your call to ministry, because there will be days when God's call is the only reason you stay in it.


I think I'd also say that if you're not willing to fail, you're not playing to win. And God calls us to play to win.

I am extremely new in Ministry. I would say "The more you follow God's will for your life, the more criticism you will face. God didn't call us to please man, but to Glorify Him with everything we do. Keep listening for God's guidance in everything. It's not about us. Constantly rekindle the spark into a fire, by yearning for more learning."

Remember that the church belongs to God...He is just letting you play in His Church. Ok, 'play' isn't the right word here, but the points in the replies are right on target. Continually pray for His guidance, never stop learning, and know that you are blessed.

All good comments above. Here's one I confronted:

Beware of pride. It's not YOU wanting to be obedient, but the Spirit IN YOU calling you INTO obedience.

Pride is a sin that will block your openness to what God wants for you, and it is often difficult to see when you are ears-deep in ministry.

If your pride derails you from where God wants you to be, then the train of people following your leadership will also be derailed.

Pride = trainwreck.

Never stop learning and stay humble.

If you stop learning you stop growing, if you stop growing, you stop leading. If you stop leading then God cant use you and your ministry is done.

Hmmm...GREAT question.

If you are not ACTIVELY pursuing God daily...you will get very frustrated very quick.

It's prolly not gonna romanticly work out like you had in mind...but be patient because when God finally starts to do His thing it's a joy that is beyond our vocabulary.

Although God is the one doing the work...be prepared.

You will be in a bind...but God will provide. One of the best quotes that I've heard in a while..."God's will, done God's way, never lacks God's provisions."

You are going to have people give you fake support (ex. "Oh that's so good. Let me know what I can do to help)...be patient...the ones who are really following Christ will jump out at you so obviously that you won't wonder who they are.

God's timing isn't our timing...

I've got more...but I'll leave it at that for now.

Stay faithful and keep Christ first.


(And read Andy Stanley)

A leader is also part of the team - not above it, part of it.

Keep balance in your life. If you do not have balance in ministry it will eat you alive and you will soon be out of ministry. Rest physiclly & spirtually...if you are burnt you are no good to anybody.